Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

[aplok]

Re: Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

i remember to have seen a link to sly info
about the way of they are doing things ...

but i cant find it out again ...

does anybody can hint me ?

thx

[digicon]

Re: Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

Thanks to ian @SP

Sky's new pairing doesn't introduce any significant differences to the existing NDS data, that data is still encrypted so only a genuine card can decrypt it, but what it does do is add an additional layer of encryption between the box/card to prevent their cards from being used in card servers like oscam or CCcam (what your c line uses to decrypt channels).

A new HD box running the latest firmware is able to take the incoming NDS data [ECMs/EMMs] from the MPEG (video) stream and further encrypt it before sending it to the card.

An old HD box (or an SD box) just continues as it did before, extracting the NDS data from the MPEG stream and feeding it to the card.

This design allows Sky to alter NOTHING to the existing NDS code, which is essential to (a) prevent loggers/hackers from running comparators over logs from the then/now data streams and (b) allow older boxes to work as before.

Remember, the change has NOT happened at the NDS level, it has happened at the firmware level of both the new HD boxes and the existing cards.

It's the boxes that are instructed to use the pairing algorithm [or not] for a particular channel(s) [or more accurately, entitlement group/level]

If you place a card in a new HD box, the card will be instructed to accept the newly encrypted data using the Sky box's pairing key...

If you then move the card back to oscam, it will continue to expect that encrypted data for that channel(s) and try to decrypt it...
Of course, as the incoming data is NOT encrypted (coming from oscam for example) you'll get nothing worthwhile back..

So what happens when you put a card back in oscam or put it back in an SD box or an old HD box and leave it..?
If the card is unable to verify it's running in a new HD box [after x amount of time (or cycles) or following a new install/pairing process], it reverts back to the original system we all know and love, which is of course easy for most to share.
[I'm sure their lawyers have reminded Sky not to enforce a blackout on paying customers for fear of prosecution or maybe Sky have acknowledged some people may use their own older boxes in the event of a failure..]

How long Sky allow the card to revert back on the other hand is the question most pay servers should be considering..

As it stands now the new system does nothing to prevent c/s, however, once Sky are happy they have updated all the smartcards (all those EMMs you've been seeing...) and have completed most (if not all) of the box upgrades, expect to see some disruption.

When this will be, you'll have to ask the boys over at Sky (and I'm not talking about their installers / customer support agents here lol)

Here's a quick overview of both the old and new data exchange:

Current:
ECM/EMM Data is fed to the box via the MPEG stream, it then passes it to the card for a response.

New:
ECM/EMM Data is fed to the box via the MPEG stream, it then further encrypts the data using a pairing key before passing it on to the card. The card decrypts this in order to then decrypt and process the original ECM/EMM command. The reply is then encrypted [again using the pairing key] and sent back to the box, which then decrypts and executes it.

Both the original ECM/EMM data and the reply have not changed, the only thing that has changed is the way the data was exchanged between the box and the card..

[John]

Re: Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

Now it's better to understand what's going on.

Thank you digicon

[aplok]

Re: Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

@ digicon

thx

so, it seems to me like this:

they introduce an intermediate ecm crypto:

if key.sly.channel requested then
sly-smartcard-specific-dedicated encrypt/decrypt process
else
do as before


this is in the firmware

... so here a 21st century new challenge : 'debug this intentionally introduced sly firmware bug'


- before sky 2014 revolution

	
     mpeg crypted
  
    satbox
 
    call mpeg decrypt
 
    if mpeg.nds every 10 sec 
    then new decrypto key required
       call ecm/mmm to smartcard
             call cards sharing
 
             cam server, ecm/emm release
             call ecm resolution
             send ecm/emm to client

             receive ecm/emm
 
     current key updated : ok

- after sly 2014 revolution

	
 
 
    mpeg crypted
 
 
    satbox
 
    call mpeg decrypt
 
    if mpeg.nds every 10 sec 
    then new decrypto key required
 
      <call sly-smarcard-specific-id internal ecm/emm crypto>
 
 
       call ecm/mmm to smartcard
             call cards sharing
 
             cam server, ecm/emm release
                 <call sly-smarcard-specific-id internal ecm/emm decrypto>
                 <call sly-smarcard-specific-id internal resolution    >
                 <call sly-smarcard-specific-id internal ecm/emm crypto>
             send ecm/emm to client

             receive ecm/emm
 
     if sly then <call sly-smarcard-specific-id internal ecm/emm decrypto>

     current key updated : ok

[sataday]

ITV encore launched today, but HD version won't clear.

ITV Encore HD 10832H 22000
ITV Encore SD 10891H 22000 5/6
ITV Encore SD+1 10906V 22000 5/6

[patrickwaldron]

Re: Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

is Itv encore not freeview like the rest of the itv package?

[pan1300]

Re: Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

hi guys

going off topic here, but I noticed that according to k*ng of S*ts ITV encore HD is on 10832 H 22000 (which is a DVB-S transponder, not a DVB-S2 one ...) - so no hd possible, right? or did I miss something here?

[patrickwaldron]

Re: Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

So 3 new channels available? Are they scrambled or freeview? Im in Irland so they will prob come in as freeview...must have a look..

[Mobley3]

Re: Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

So 3 new channels available? Are they scrambled or freeview? Im in Irland so they will prob come in as freeview...must have a look..

I take it you mean FTA Patrick, all scrambled for me. They may be available on Freeview in the UK.

Regards Mobley3

[sataday]

Re: Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

So 3 new channels available? Are they scrambled or freeview? Im in Irland so they will prob come in as freeview...must have a look..

Unfortunately they are not on freeview(FTA). They are part of the Sly package (scrambled)

[Mobley3]

Re: Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

Freeview is Terrestrial TV. FTA is free to air on Satellite.

Regards Mobley

[skytec]

Re: Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

So 3 new channels available? Are they scrambled or freeview? Im in Irland so they will prob come in as freeview...must have a look..

Channels using UK spot beam. There is a problem to get it outside UK.

[Mobley3]

Re: Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

Channels using UK spot beam. There is a problem to get it outside UK.

Drifting off topic here.The Spotbeam covers UK & Ireland. channels come in on S 82% Q 98%.

Regards Mobley3

[runmo]

Re: Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

Keep it to the topic, the new itv channel can be discussed in new thread, thank you, out of topic posts will be removed.

[sataday]

Re: Sky UK stopping HD channels on CS.

Another 2 gone today.

Sky Sport 3 HD
Sky Sport News HD