Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

[besit]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

DVB stands for digital video broadcasting. It exists in 3 incarnations - DVB-S, DVB-C and DVB-T. These 3 standards have a one major difference - DVB-s intended to broadcast via satellite network, DVB-C - cable network and DVB-T - terrestrial network. DVB-S and DVB-T have 2nd generation extension - T2 and S2, to use optimezed modulation types. (Never heard about DVB-C2).
All DVB standards utilize same codecs, compressions, the difference is on a frequency level. So it's kind incorrect to talk about "quality". The quality depends on provider not on a standard.
I can say like it goes in Russia
They had test broadcasting in DVB-T. 8 federal channels on one frequency. FTA. Quality was less then medium- SD, Low bitrates, all channels in 4x3, No EPG. Than they said -"No we 'll move to DVB-T2" and I absolutely lost my interest for terrestrial DVB in Russian federation.

PS
Cardsharing is possible for all 3 standards.

[herrr]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

The differences are that dvb-t is much easier to receive (when you have normal signal strength) but has a smoother picture which has minor sharpness - caused by the explained lower bitrates and special smoothing-technics by the broadcaster. In "analoge quality" there can be broadcasted 3 or 4 programs on a former analoge channel. DVB-T is usualy made for TVs with integrated dvb-t tuner. For a normal user (like my parents) it's enough quality.
Good sat-receivers are made for better picture and sound with higher bitrates. I use Sat for normal watching and dvb-t as backup in my house.

OK: but you have to consider different habits in different nations: Germany always had a lot of cable and satellite users, Italy completely not cable (except, for artistic reasons, city of Siena, where both dishes and terrestrial antennas are not allowed).
Satellite was only developed with D+ and then SKY...
And last but not least, we have a complete offer of pay TV on terrestrial TV...that's non-sense...but guess who's the owner...

[marian321]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

The differences are that dvb-t is much easier to receive (when you have normal signal strength) but has a smoother picture which has minor sharpness - caused by the explained lower bitrates and special smoothing-technics by the broadcaster. In "analoge quality" there can be broadcasted 3 or 4 programs on a former analoge channel. DVB-T is usualy made for TVs with integrated dvb-t tuner. For a normal user (like my parents) it's enough quality.
Good sat-receivers are made for better picture and sound with higher bitrates. I use Sat for normal watching and dvb-t as backup in my house.

[herrr]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

hi

The 'ketnet" channel is SD, but not sure if I have the one DVB-S or the one DVB-S2 (will check later if I don't forget) - no freezing with the antenna, so it's good.
About the 'section': a normal antenna has eg 20 'arms', I use only 1 of them (but as said: same quality as with a complete one - really no difference).

Do you mean only the dipole?
A Yagi antenna is made by a dipole, a reflector and a number of directors: it's recommended to use such an antenna, unless you are very close to transmitters.

[pan1300]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

OK: I mean that the tuner of your TV is DVB-T and must be compared to transmissions in DVB-S, not DVB-S2, because it's normal that they are better, like compare F1 with Cinquecento...
About better antennas: they make it possible to receive more channels and guarantee better BER (low number of errors) in digital and better signal/noise ratio in analog transmissions.
About this: is perhaps your terrestrial reception also worse with frezees, that's antennas fault...
Edit: what do you mean for a "section"?

hi

The 'ketnet" channel is SD, but not sure if I have the one DVB-S or the one DVB-S2 (will check later if I don't forget) - no freezing with the antenna, so it's good.
About the 'section': a normal antenna has eg 20 'arms', I use only 1 of them (but as said: same quality as with a complete one - really no difference).

[herrr]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

hi herrr

The channels (all fta) I was talking about are: Een, Canvas and Ketnet (can be called KetOp12 sometimes). I don't know what you mean with an 'old' DVB-T -> the digital DBV-T tuner is build in my tv as said and is about 3 years old. I use only a 'section' of an antenna, but tried with a bigger one and channels + quality was the same. My father in law has a bigger antenna which is placed much higher and he receives about 20 channels I believe( but don't know which ones).

OK: I mean that the tuner of your TV is DVB-T and must be compared to transmissions in DVB-S, not DVB-S2, because it's normal that they are better, like compare F1 with Cinquecento...
About better antennas: they make it possible to receive more channels and guarantee better BER (low number of errors) in digital and better signal/noise ratio in analog transmissions.
About this: is perhaps your terrestrial reception also worse with frezees, that's antennas fault...
Edit: what do you mean for a "section"?

[pan1300]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

Belgium is quite interesting for terrestrial reception...with a good antenna since 60s you could receive a lot of channels...
Anyway, as we said before, the most important thing is the choice of broadcaster, if he decides for good quality you can have nearly sat watching..but this is rare...
You can tell me which channels are you talking about, I'm not so expert as about Italy, but I helped on a forum one friend in Belgium.
(I must say that I'm very active in an italian forum about terrestrial broadcasting - I'm a retired professional in radio broadcasting)

Edit: I didn't notice that you compare DVB-S2 with "old" DVB-T...that's not correct...)

hi herrr

The channels (all fta) I was talking about are: Een, Canvas and Ketnet (can be called KetOp12 sometimes). I don't know what you mean with an 'old' DVB-T -> the digital DBV-T tuner is build in my tv as said and is about 3 years old. I use only a 'section' of an antenna, but tried with a bigger one and channels + quality was the same. My father in law has a bigger antenna which is placed much higher and he receives about 20 channels I believe( but don't know which ones).

[herrr]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

hi guys

Just my impression (without the technical explanation, but I'm sure all you guys have written is very true). Here (Belgium) I receive I think 3 channels on DVB-T (build in sony lcd) which are also on sat (with stb DVB-S2 tuner) and the sat quality is much much better (think 2x HD + 1x SD on sat, also the SD much much better on sat).

Belgium is quite interesting for terrestrial reception...with a good antenna since 60s you could receive a lot of channels...
Anyway, as we said before, the most important thing is the choice of broadcaster, if he decides for good quality you can have nearly sat watching..but this is rare...
You can tell me which channels are you talking about, I'm not so expert as about Italy, but I helped on a forum one friend in Belgium.
(I must say that I'm very active in an italian forum about terrestrial broadcasting - I'm a retired professional in radio broadcasting)

Edit: I didn't notice that you compare DVB-S2 with "old" DVB-T...that's not correct...)

[pan1300]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

hi guys

Just my impression (without the technical explanation, but I'm sure all you guys have written is very true). Here (Belgium) I receive I think 3 channels on DVB-T (build in sony lcd) which are also on sat (with stb DVB-S2 tuner) and the sat quality is much much better (think 2x HD + 1x SD on sat, also the SD much much better on sat).

[marian321]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

In Italy some minor multiplexes of local channels have until more than 8 channels (quality worse than on You ****...)

An example, to show I'm not jocking:

Bouquet E'TV channel 42 Northern Italy:

1) Antenna 1 Tv
2) Tv News Tv
3) Tv Parma Tv
4) Tv Rete 7 Tv
5) Tv Sport Tv
6) Gold Tv Italia Tv
7) SMtv San Marino Tv
8) Studio Italia (Tv Travel) Tv
9) Teletricolore Tv

10) Radio Erre Radio
11) Radio Nettuno Radio

This means ~1,4mbits per channel...
Very low quality. In Germany there are normaly 4 TV channels in one multiplex. But I think with such a low bitrate as you discribe they use 352*576 or even 352 * 288 resolution as a view very bad sat-providers do. In that case there is no difference between dvb-t and dvb-s. But thats an absolut exception.
Another difference is the sound. Sat usualy uses 192kbits, dvb-t often uses 128kbits (mp2).

[herrr]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

A dvb-t transponder can only use ~12 - 13mbits, that means only 4 normal programs and low chances for variable bitrates than the 25mbits on a sat-transponder. So the often smooth the pictures on dvb-t to avoit picture errors in fast movings.

In Italy some minor multiplexes of local channels have until more than 8 channels (quality worse than on You ****...)

An example, to show I'm not jocking:

Bouquet E'TV channel 42 Northern Italy:

1) Antenna 1 Tv
2) Tv News Tv
3) Tv Parma Tv
4) Tv Rete 7 Tv
5) Tv Sport Tv
6) Gold Tv Italia Tv
7) SMtv San Marino Tv
8) Studio Italia (Tv Travel) Tv
9) Teletricolore Tv

10) Radio Erre Radio
11) Radio Nettuno Radio

[gcms]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

DVB-t is digital terrestrial - i.e. via an aerial. The brand-name for the digital terrestrial service in the UK is Freeview. All Freeview channels are unencrypted and so can be received with a Nova-t.

DVB-s is digital satellite - i.e. via a digital satellite dish. .

[marian321]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

A dvb-t transponder can only use ~12 - 13mbits, that means only 4 normal programs and low chances for variable bitrates than the 25mbits on a sat-transponder. So the often smooth the pictures on dvb-t to avoit picture errors in fast movings.

[kudok]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

Regarding DVBT2 in Germany / Region München / Munich

please read here: --http://www2.rohde-schwarz.com/en/technologies/broadcast_tv_radio/terrestrial_broadcast/dvb-t2/information/

[herrr]

Re: Differences DVB-T to DVB-S

Ohh there are big differences in Quality between dvb-s and dvb-t. The data rates of most (not all!) providers on sat is higher. DVB-T uses ~3 Mbits (in Germany) and DVB-S ~4 –7 Mbits on better channels. And DVB-T uses a lower resolution (in Germany) as the normal or better sat-providers.

-T and -S are the ways of broadcasting, but there are many other differences. Standard sat-tv uses 720 * 576 resulution, dvb-t 544 * 576 and lower bitrates. DVB-s uses sometimes ac3 sound, in germany no dvb-t uses this.

Eheheh...I was answering "no difference", but after that I'd say all the things you've said...
As a matter of fact I mean that there are differences in implementing, but standards (DVB-S with DVB-T and DVB-S2 with DVB-T2) are not so different...
As you said before the differences are also "national" : I think that a good example is Italy vs. France: very few channels in France, with very good quality, all available channels stuffed in Italy (using SFN, that allows nation-wide isofrequential broadcasting of each not local multiplex), but sometimes with poor quality...
Did DVB-T2 transmissions not begin in Germany?
In Italy there is already a nation-wide broadcaster (Europa 7) implementing the standard.