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Low noise blocks (LNB)

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  • skytec
    Experienced Board Member
    • Mar 2010
    • 1208

    Low noise blocks (LNB)

    Low noise blocks

    The front end of any DBS receiver is the low noise block. The LNB is an environmentally packaged (read that rain and sun proof) superheterodyne receiver. A two or three stage low noise amplifier sets the noise figure to somewhere under one dB with maybe 20 dB of gain, then a mixer downconverts to an IF frequency. An IF amp boosts the overall gain to 55 to 60 dB.

    The picture below is the guts of an LNB. Absent from the field of view is the downconvertor integrated circuit, which is actually on the back of this double-sided board. Somewhere are a voltage regulator and a DC-DC convertor for generating the negative voltage that is needed for the PHEMT amplifier stages.

    Covering NA and European apps, downconverter needs to cover 950-2150 MHz

    Signals are circularly polarized. need vertical and horizontal amplifier chains. allows twice as many channels! Switching is done at IF frequency to minimize added noise figure

    DC power to the LNB is typically 18 volts at up to 500 mA. If a negative voltage is needed, a DC-DC converter is onboard. A positive regulator cleans up the DC supply for the LNA and downconverter functions.

    A dielectric resonator oscillator is used to create the LO signal. Only 27 MHz of bandwidth is sent down the RG6 or RG6/U 75 ohm cable. Loss per foot of this cable is xx dB/100 feet (a typical length from receiver to dish).

    The input signal is approximately -70 dBm at LNB. 11.45 to 12.75 GHz in NA, Japan and Korea, 10.7 to 12.75 in Europe total cascaded gain is 55 to 60 dB with 1.0 dB noise figure.

    An image rejection filter is sometimes use to clean up the noise from the image band. Otherwise an image rejection mixer is used. The mixer and IF amp are almost always combined onto a single monolithic chip using MMIC technology. Often an RF amplifier stage or two is employed in front of the mixer to reduce the downconverter noise figure (which makes it an active mixer). Today's downconvertor ICs are silicon, the only GaAs chips are the discrete low noise FETs.

    Low cost circuit board used (not ceramic!) substrates

    LNA consists of discrete 0.25 micron "super-low-noise" transistors in ceramic or plastic micro-X X-packages. From Japan (NEC). First stage is more expensive than second stage, screened for lowest NF, with a minimum noise figure of 0.45 dB at 12 GHz. The second stage need only provide 0.8 dB (minimum) for a successful DBS LNB. The combined noise figure of the two stage LNA of the LNB, including matching networks, bias networks and blocking caps needs to be just under 1.0 dB.

    When you are designing a two or three stage LNA using discrete FETs, always return to a known impedance (such a 50 ohms) between stages. Don't try any fancy interstages like you might on a MMIC, you will regret it.

    The blocking cap between stages should be a 30 x 60 mil surface mount 1.0 pF cap. The idea is that the series resonance of the cap occurs exactly at the DBS band, so it behaves like an RF short. Of course, it should have no parasitic real resistance. You can verify that you have a good capacitor by measuring it's S-parameters across a gap in a fifty-ohm test fixture. You don't need a blocking cap on the input, the antenna presents a DC open.

    DRO 10.5 to 11.5 GHz in north America

    IF 950-1450 GHz (L-band)

    950-2150 Europe

    Needs to performed from -40 to +85C
    Attached Files
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  • skytec
    Experienced Board Member
    • Mar 2010
    • 1208

    #2
    Re: Low noise blocks (LNB)

    Inside the LNB
    The difference between LNB C-Band and KU-Band
    Attached Files
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    Comment

    • zulqar
      Junior Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 23

      #3
      Re: Low noise blocks (LNB)

      thanks for sharing great info but its hard to find 0.1 lnbs in my area.

      Comment

      • yselim
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2010
        • 100

        #4
        Re: Low noise blocks (LNB)

        Originally posted by zulqar
        thanks for sharing great info but its hard to find 0.1 lnbs in my area.
        these noise numbers like 0,1 -0,2 are not real numbers. producers intentionally put these numbers to win in sales competition. dont be surprised if they put 0,01 db in two years. some producers have already put "hd lnb" mark on their lnbs although a lnb has nothing with hd. it is as funy as claiming "my harddisk is hd supported, and i can save hd movies in it".

        Comment

        • powerman
          Banned
          • Aug 2010
          • 676

          #5
          Re: Low noise blocks (LNB)

          now i have question can i take analoge frequency with receiver and LNb digital?

          Comment

          • yselim
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2010
            • 100

            #6
            Re: Low noise blocks (LNB)

            powerman:

            there is no distinction between analog lnb or digital lnb. to be more accurate a lnb is just a lnb. it just picks signals converts it to different frequency and sends it to tuner. lnb doesnt deal with signal content. content of signal can be analog or digital. you can use same lnb for both analog and digital broadcasts. but you must use a analog receiver for analog broadcasts.


            conax2:

            you cant receive dvb-s2 transponders using a dvb-s receiver. because coding systems used in dvb-s2 are different. your dvb-s receiver will not "lock" for parameters of a dvb-s2 transponder. you can only receive and watch these tps when tuner, processor and software of your receiver are suitable for dvb-s2 transponders.

            Comment

            • skytec
              Experienced Board Member
              • Mar 2010
              • 1208

              #7
              Re: Low noise blocks (LNB)

              Originally posted by yselim
              these noise numbers like 0,1 -0,2 are not real numbers. producers intentionally put these numbers to win in sales competition. dont be surprised if they put 0,01 db in two years. some producers have already put "hd lnb" mark on their lnbs although a lnb has nothing with hd. it is as funy as claiming "my harddisk is hd supported, and i can save hd movies in it".
              Yes, I agree with you. It's only a marketing gimmick to sell goods. Thus, low noise figures are possible only under extreme cooling such as nitrogen.
              Is my post useful for you? Please press sigpic

              Comment

              • uttnls

                #8
                Re: Low noise blocks (LNB)

                Originally posted by yselim
                powerman:

                there is no distinction between analog lnb or digital lnb. to be more accurate a lnb is just a lnb. it just picks signals converts it to different frequency and sends it to tuner. lnb doesnt deal with signal content. content of signal can be analog or digital. you can use same lnb for both analog and digital broadcasts. but you must use a analog receiver for analog broadcasts.


                conax2:

                you cant receive dvb-s2 transponders using a dvb-s receiver. because coding systems used in dvb-s2 are different. your dvb-s receiver will not "lock" for parameters of a dvb-s2 transponder. you can only receive and watch these tps when tuner, processor and software of your receiver are suitable for dvb-s2 transponders.
                It is not true, it will have signal on those but will not be able to see the channel before of missing hardware.

                Take as example lets say you have two PCI cards, one is dvb-s2 capable, you scan with the dvs-2 channel in dvbviewer with first one disabled. Then you disable the card using dvb-s2 and enable the one with dvb-s.

                You'll see that you have signal on those channels but will never open

                Comment

                • satman72
                  Experienced Board Member
                  • Jun 2010
                  • 3550

                  #9
                  Re: Low noise blocks (LNB)

                  Originally posted by zulqar
                  thanks for sharing great info but its hard to find 0.1 lnbs in my area.
                  If you can find one Black Inverto LNB buy it, is one of best and cheaper LNB, I've tested many also expensive models and this one is the best, trust me! Don't care about noise figure written on LNB case, are all fake numbers.
                  Just click on thanks button if my post has helped you
                  Don't send me cline requests, technical or premium server questions in PM! I'll not answer!

                  Comment

                  • uttnls

                    #10
                    Re: Low noise blocks (LNB)

                    Originally posted by satman72
                    If you can find one Black Inverto LNB buy it, is one of best and cheaper LNB, I've tested many also expensive models and this one is the best, trust me! Don't care about noise figure written on LNB case, are all fake numbers.
                    It has any manufacturer on it or any distinctive signs ?

                    Comment

                    • kiss_ro
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 144

                      #11
                      Re: Low noise blocks (LNB)

                      Originally posted by satman72
                      If you can find one Black Inverto LNB buy it, is one of best and cheaper LNB, I've tested many also expensive models and this one is the best, trust me! Don't care about noise figure written on LNB case, are all fake numbers.
                      What's so special in this one??? In my opinion a LNB if can work in extreme conditions during a lot of years - that is a good one. For example I have another type of LNB working perfectly - here in Spain - where are a lot of temperature variation between summer and winter - it's made by ALPS and has real 0.2db. Still works after 6 years in temperatures between -15ºC ... +42ºC (measured in the shadow) ... so I'm satisfyed... it worked with my SS2 and now with my DM800HD clone...

                      Comment

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