Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

[Satphoenix]

NDS is the first system which started counter attacks against CS (new cw 0,6sec before cw changes - means glitches if ping is not fast enough). But e.g. for sky germ. it are used in simulcrypt with e.g. ID1702, 1722...
Do they also broadcast their new cw only 600ms in the simulcrypt systems before the cw changes? I thought they do this only when id09xx is the only cryptsystem?!

[gianni253]

Re: Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

I can't check myself but I guess it should be the same because, according to DVB ETSI specifications, the encrypted trasport stream and payload is the the same for all CAIDs, same CWs and ... same timings.

[Satphoenix]

Re: Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

I've heard that when you use caid 1702 (prefered in cccam.cfg) there are no freezes and when you use the simulcrypt caid 09c4 there are glitching problems. As far as I know every crypt-provider has it's own rules so that it's no problem for nds to send the even controlword only 0,6 seconds before the cw-change. If all providers begin doing this, we will get some problems with cs...

[gianni253]

Re: Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

I've heard that when you use caid 1702 (prefered in cccam.cfg) there are no freezes and when you use the simulcrypt caid 09c4 there are glitching problems. As far as I know every crypt-provider has it's own rules so that it's no problem for nds to send the even controlword only 0,6 seconds before the cw-change. If all providers begin doing this, we will get some problems with cs...

I don't think providers send one transport stream for each CAID present in simulcrypt.
Why should they send the same data more times (loosing a lot of bandwidth) when it is not needed ?
Anyway let's wait the response from someone who owns a non-nd*s card.

[Satphoenix]

Re: Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

I don't think providers send one transport stream for each CAID present in simulcrypt.
Why should they send the same data more times (loosing a lot of bandwidth) when it is not needed ?
card.

No, no, the transportstream is the same (only one stream) but the next controlword in the ecm appears in caid09xx only 0,6 seconds before the change. For the original card this means no problem, but for cs this can cause a short glitch.
Normaly the providers send the actuell cw and three or four seconds before the change the next cw but nds has startet to reduce this time extremly. So many users report about glitches with pure nds system. I can confirm this on 28,2°.

[spanky_1209]

Re: Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

caid 1702 (prefered in cccam.cfg) is used for BetaCrypt encoding this is why this kind of CAID is preffered for SKY Germany. ECM Time is much less for BetaCrypt.

[Satphoenix]

Re: Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

caid 1702 (prefered in cccam.cfg) is used for BetaCrypt encoding this is why this kind of CAID is preffered for SKY Germany. ECM Time is much less for BetaCrypt.

Let's hope that they keep their system (caid1702). I've seen lots of glitches on pure nds systems (sky_it, sky_uk) only for 0,2 - 0,5 seconds which means the answering time is only a bit to short.
In other systems it's ok, as far as the cline is ok.

I think nds starts testing also in the simulcrypt, so that you can optimise it with ignore or prio.

Let's wait and see...

[easydigital]

Re: Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

I also have problems with UK sky television freezers quite a lot the response time needs to be very fast using a hop 1 cline to receive a quality hd picture...

[Satphoenix]

Re: Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

I also have problems with UK sky television freezers quite a lot the response time needs to be very fast using a hop 1 cline to receive a quality hd picture...

What is your result with e.g. sky_it (13° - if you can get this) or other pure nds providers?
They come glitch free or have short freezes?

I've tested with server four - perhaps my server connection is to slow.
Or someone with a better (premium) cline can tell?

[moFu]

Re: Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

no good news today ... they probably found a way to get cardsharing more uncomfortable. if this is uses in sky.uk and .it probably (or sure )other countrys sky will do the same.

if you are using satlover free lines the short freezes maybe are caused due to server balance

[gianni253]

Re: Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

What is your result with e.g. sky_it (13° - if you can get this) or other pure nds providers?
They come glitch free or have short freezes?

I've tested with server four - perhaps my server connection is to slow.
Or someone with a better (premium) cline can tell?

Internal card reader of dm500 takes about 90 - 100 ms for sky*it for card caids 09CD/093B (no overclocking).
Ecm time increases to 160 - 170 ms for caid 0919 (first version of sky*it cards).

No glitches up to 600 ms so there is still a good time margin for network delay.

[Satphoenix]

Re: Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

no good news today ... they probably found a way to get cardsharing more uncomfortable. if this is uses in sky.uk and .it probably (or sure )other countrys sky will do the same.

As I said before, they have started counter-attacks. But if they make the time to short they risk problems for the normal subscribers.

Internal card reader of dm500 takes about 90 - 100 ms for sky*it for card caids 09CD/093B (no overclocking).
Ecm time increases to 160 - 170 ms for caid 0919 (first version of sky*it cards).

This will mean defenitly freezes or glitches on only a bit overloaded servers and perhaps a new structure for cccam (perhaps decrypted cw in ram at the server for faster answers, we have to wait and see...).

[gianni253]

Re: Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

This will mean defenitly freezes or glitches on only a bit overloaded servers and perhaps a new structure for cccam (perhaps decrypted cw in ram at the server for faster answers, we have to wait and see...).

Actually countermeasures by sky*it are more aimed to destroy cards that are used outside their official boxes (see error 999x).
Ecm time has never been a problem.

[Satphoenix]

Re: Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

Actually countermeasures by sky*it are more aimed to destroy cards that are used outside their official boxes (see error 999x).
Ecm time has never been a problem.

I don't speak italian, so I can't read about 999x error.

But ecm-timing will defenitly effect CS.

If only a few users want to share the same card and the even-cw comes only 1 second before change only the first and the second ecm-request will be answered in time.
The rest will have glitches.

[gianni253]

Re: Simulcrypt with nds - freezes and glitches?

If only a few users want to share the same card and the even-cw comes only 1 second before change only the first and the second ecm-request will be answered in time.
The rest will have glitches.

Requests to card are asynchronous (they are not serialized in queue) so the scenario you are representing does not take place in reality.
Facts show that an oscam server with a slow (0919 caid) card can serve up to 20 users without glitches. I can't confirm myself, but this number could be even higher.